Ep. #2 | Emily Affolter on being an ally and the White Liberal Chamber

Last week, I had a great conversation with Emily Affolter – scholar, teacher, and social justice activist. We talked about whether Kindling’s message itself is a microaggression, how to be a helpful white ally, the White Liberal Chamber, a new paradigm for education, and more. Check it out!


Emily and I continued talking well after we pressed “stop” and went even further. In particular, Emily spoke about how in the dominant race-based conversation in the U.S., racial conversations are often limited to the white/Black binary, when in fact there are many others who experience racism who are made invisible by this binary. We were both concerned that our conversation in this podcast may have contributed to this problematic dynamic.


Interaction Institute for Social Change | Artist: Angus Maguire.
Interaction Institute for Social Change | Artist: Angus Maguire. interactioninstitute.org | madewithangus.com


1 Comment
  1. I absolutely love this podcast Emily and Peter, and found it really informative. Definitely going to share it with my network, as I think everyone, but especially white people, will benefit from this discussion. The one thing I’d like to add to Peter’s question about the next big thing with social justice is hearing Peter use the term “big action” brought up something for me. Often I feel like one of the biggest “actions” we can be taking is listening and engaging with these critical issues. However the action of listening is a very passive one, one that I feel is not valued by our society, because it is more feminine in nature. Listening is receiving, and so I hope that we can all just become much more aware of when we are dominating conversations, and how to step back and listen with an open heart and mind. Again great work, and I feel very moved by all of the thoughtfulness displayed here.